Just trying to get a grasp of what you believe.

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To begin with, I believe it is important to share with you that I consider myself to be a partial preterist with an amillennium understanding. I believe that all prophecy has been fulfilled except for the second coming of Christ, His casting of satan into the bottomless pit, the Judgement and our future reign with Christ.

As I see it and am fully convinced, the correct understanding of Matthew 24:29-31 will settle the whole issue of what is depicted by the phrase "coming with the clouds". I believe we must remember that Christ Jesus was delivering this message to Jews and about Jews. Therefore for we Gentiles to understand that which He is speaking of would mean that we too must have the same understanding common to the learned Jew of that day. Jesus Himself never said anything in the context of the Jews without it being understood that they already had a knowledge of prophetic language and how it was previously applied by the Old Testament prophets.

I believe that we must see how the same figure of speech was used, in the days of the present covenant, by Jesus, the disciples, and all Jews at that time.

Looking, now, at Matthew 24:29 when Jesus said:

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days (if He means the Jewish wars as it seems this was the referred to timing) the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken."

This language does not have to be literal anymore then it does in Isaiah, Ezekiel or Joel where it talks of the fall of Babylon, the fall of Edom, the fall of Egypt or the fall of Jerusalem in the case of Joel. In other words this is typical prophetic language, the prophets have done this before, so we are not in unfamiliar territory here. Jesus is a Jewish prophet and He speaks like a Jewish prophet and disciples are aquainted with the way of the Jewish prophets. Jesus speaks of a great catyclism as if He is speaking of the dissoulution of the universe itself. But such language itself simply meant the fall of a great empire or the fall of a great city like Babylon. And the fall of Jerusalem would certainly warrant such language. This might be strange to our ears but we have to remember that Jesus was not writing this to Americans, Brits or Austrailians but to Jews and Jews had certain established idioms that they were familiar with from their prophets. If todays Christians were more familiar than they are with Jewish prophets they would make far less mistakes over the words of Jesus because He used the same established language.

Now, what about verse 30?

30"And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky,(NAS)

The word order as used here in the NAS is not the only possible word order. The sentence is read this way in the KJV:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:(KJV)

This second rendition has different implications than how it is rendered in the NAS because in the NAS it seems to read that the sign actually appears in the sky or heaven as the NKJV reads. Some scholars believe that the sign was not in heaven but it was an earthly sign that the Son of man was in heaven. Let me turn your attention to what Jesus said to Caiaphas the high priest in Matthew 26 beginning with vs. 63:

63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" 64 Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Certainly when Jesus says this to living men the most natural way to see this is that it will happen in their lifetime. Now what they will see is the Son of man in heaven coming on the clouds. Now of this language, does this require, and would they understand Him to mean that they will actually see Him in the sky? Well, we might think so because that is the way we might mean it, but how would the Jews understand it? Its always good to compare Scripture with Scripture. Less mistakes by all of us would be made if we did this more often. Let me show you something in Isaiah 19:1

1 The burden against Egypt.
Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud,
And will come into Egypt;

The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence,
And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.

None of that is literal language. Hearts don't literally melt, idols don't tremble in fear but that's what is predicted. This is figurative language. Prophets always use figurative language. It is poetic, but what does it mean? What it means is that a judgement from the Lord is coming upon Egypt. As it turned out this judgement was realized through armies who destroyed and conquered Egypt and the instruments used to accomplish this were the Assyrian armies.But how does the prophet symbolically relate this?

"Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud, And will come into Egypt;"

Did God visibly come to Egypt? Did God really ride on a cloud? The language is based upon the fact that earlier Scriptures said that God rides a cloud like a chariotier, a war vehicle. Ps 104:3

3 He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters,
Who makes the clouds His chariot,
Who walks on the wings of the wind,

See, the Psalmist said that God makes the clouds His chariot. The chariot is a vehicle of war. When God judges a nation and sends armies against a nation its as if God is riding at the head of those armies even if they are pagan because they are doing His bidding. Maybe inadvertantly but His bidding nonetheless. So we find God riding on a swift cloud coming to Egypt, but literally or figuratively? Not literally and yet what is the difference between the language of Is. 19:1 and the language of Jesus in Matthew 24? He says at the end of verse 30:

"and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory".

They'll see the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. The Son of man is in heaven. The Son of man is glorified and He is ruling, and the sign that He is doing so is the destruction of His enemies who have crucified Him, His vindication. The destruction of Jerusalem is the sign on earth that the Son of man is in fact exalted and vindicated in heaven.

Now, there is a problem. Verse 30 says:

"and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,"

This sounds like this has to be the second coming because everyone on the whole planet from all the tribes of the whole earth will mourn. But in the Greek, the word "earth" (ge) means earth or land, either one. They are equally good translations for the Greek word "ge". What if it was translated, saying the "tribes of the land will mourn"? If that were the meaning then of course this would mean this was something that happened to Israel. Now let me ask you; what sounds more biblical, the expression "tribes of the earth" or "tribes of the land"? The earth is not divided into tribes but into nations. But in Scripture Israel is divided into tribes. Israel is a cluster of tribes, 12 of them. Therefore to say all the tribes of the ______ (earth or land), land is more likely, the tribes of the land of Israel. Therefore I am suggesting that the way Jesus said this is not all the tribes of the earth but all the tribes of the land will mourn. Did that happen is 70AD? Boy, you bet it did. Israel, all Israel was afflicted and has been afflicted ever since.

Now to verse 31. Here is a bit of a problem, or is it?

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now, some understand this as being the rapture, and I respect that view, but I would like to share with you my understanding of this and I believe I have biblical proof to support it.The two main schools of thought are that this is the gathering of the elect from this world to be with Christ in heaven whether it is a preterist view or a pre-trib view but that is not necessarily what this verse says. Maybe the reason these two views are popular because of the mention of angels but the Greek word "angelio" is plural for "angelos" and agelos means messenger. It is frequently used in the bible for super-natural heavenly beings we call angels.It is also repeatedly used in Scripture of people who are not angels.For example we are told in Luke that John the Baptist had sent angelio from prison to Jesus to ask Him "are you the one that is to come". Well, everybody knows those messengers were human but the word "angelio" is used. This type of use can be found several times of human messengers.

Now what if that meant that here? The word does not have any indication that the messengers were angels, context alone decides. What if we understood this to mean that "He will send out His messenger" and they will gather together His elect from all the parts of the world? How would that be understood? Wouldn't that naturally be understood that the messengers were evangelists of the gospel sent out to gather from throughout the world into the kingdom of God into the church all the elect from all the earth from one end of heaven to the other, one horizon to the other horizon? The language certainly can bear that meaning. In that case what Jesus is predicting here is simply the destruction of the Jewish state, and of its temple and of its capital. A great grief coming on the Jewish people but the messengers of God sent out to all the world bringing in the gentiles. This prediction would make good sense. Did it happen in that generation? It did.

I am not certain what your view is of the Olivet discourse. I do not know if to you Mattew 24 is fulfilled or yet future, so I would like to pose a few questions to all. I don't necessarily need a response because of the type of format we are using, plus there have been other articles on my website that thoroughly address this subject. But here are the questions:

Matthew 24:34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
Literal or not literal?

Luke 21:32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.
Literal or not literal?

Mark 13:30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
Literal or not literal?

Matthew 23:36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Literal or not literal? Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Literal or not literal?

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Literal or not literal?

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Literal or not literal?

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,
Literal or not literal?

I do not believe Satans little season has passed. I do believe it will be short lived but I do believe Satan is presently bound so that he is not able to influence the true church but will be released from that figuritive binding in order to decieve the nations one last time.

As to if I believe in a visible second coming of Christ - I can only say that I hope it may not be far off. There are many things about the present age that make it hard to imagine what the world could possibly be like a hundred years from now, if the Lord should tarry. The fact that I have children, and look forward to having more grandchildren makes me hope that the Lord may come before some of the current trends that are only in their germinal stages right now begin to flower. However, things can be pretty bad for centuries without it signalling the near coming of Christ (think of the Imperial persecutions and the Dark Ages!).

On the other hand, things may get unexpectedly better. I, for one, have been praying for revival. If God sends one, that would be worth staying around for!

As for concrete indicators of the near coming of Christ, the Bible doesn't give many. Most of the signs that are popularly applied to that topic (e.g., earthquakes, famines, pestilence, false christs, wars and rumors of wars) are not really applicable, and are found in passages related to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD (Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21).

The one thing the Bible does indicate is that Christ will come after certain developments have occurred within His body, the church.

One of these is the evangelization of the nations. Though Matthew 24:14 may or may not be talking about conditions that were met prior to 70 AD (cf. Col.1:6, 23), it reveals the same concern of God that is found in the Great Commission, namely, that all nations be evangelized and discipled (Matt.28:19-20/ Mark 16:15). God has waited 2000 years, so far, for us to get as far as we have gotten on this assignment, and since it is still moving forward, I doubt that He will abort the project before it is completed.

The other development that God seems to be waiting for is the maturity and the unity ofthe saints (Eph.4:13-16/Mark 4:29).

The first coming of Christ is likened, in scripture, to a sunrise (Isa.60:1-3/ Mal.4:2/ Luke 1:78), and so is the second coming (2 Pet.1:19/ Matt.24:27 [see the Greek for "lightning": "Astrape" means "bright shining," as in Luke 11:36]). Before the morning sun appears, the light in the eastern sky becomes gradually brighter. "The path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, that grows brighter and brighter until full day" (Prov.4:18).

The glory of the Lord will be revealed in us (Rom.8:18) as Christ is progressively formed in us (Gal.4:19). This process will be measured on the scale of our love for and unity with each other (Eph.4:13/1 Cor.1-3/ John 17:21-23). It seems that it will resemble the dawning of a new day, "the Day of the Lord," with His people more and more resembling Him, both corporately and individually, and the light of His countenance upon us becoming brighter (Psalm 4:6), until the Son Himself appears over the horizon to judge the world and to reward those who love His appearing.

Just so I am not misunderstood, I believe in an actual future day of the second coming of Christ, to raise and glorify the saints (John 5:28-29/ Phil.3:20-21) and to bring in the new heavens and the new earth (2 Pet.3:10-13). I do not necessarily anticipate the world getting better and better, as some do, though this may in fact happen. It is the change in God's own people that I think is predicted, and this change may occur in a hostile environment, and may even be augmented by persecution (2 Cor.4:16-18). So, even if the world gets worse and worse, and we are persecuted as never before, our light will shine in the faces of our persecutors, brighter and brighter until the Son Himself arises for all to see and his enemies wither like the grass on the rooftops in the blazing sun (James 1:11/Isa.37:27).